tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-598558136160705007.post2260080267010870540..comments2024-01-28T21:33:18.654-08:00Comments on VANESSA GEBBIE'S BLOG: A little collection of poetry, and some home truths.Vanessa Gebbiehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09088301040602803489noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-598558136160705007.post-38686873198390268302013-02-06T14:13:23.572-08:002013-02-06T14:13:23.572-08:00Hi Pascale, many congratulations on the 'almos...Hi Pascale, many congratulations on the 'almost finishing' of the novel. Chapeau! <br />If it helps at all, I feel frozen with mine most of the time, but I wont let it beat me into submission. Mind you it is not autobiographical at all - and I can imagine you would feel very naked, having written like that. I will lend you my armour plating, for the Q and As after reading events! <br />xVanessa Gebbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09088301040602803489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-598558136160705007.post-76757718938564235002013-02-06T02:46:28.891-08:002013-02-06T02:46:28.891-08:00Tania and Vanessa,
I have to agree with you that t...Tania and Vanessa,<br />I have to agree with you that there is an element of the poetry world that looks forbidding to the non-poet, but it shouldnt be like that, nor should poems. I do hope that changes. It's a small world so perhaps this contributes to the feeling that it's a family. Conversely, as a poet who has almost finished writing a novel, I am so petrified of the whole novel scene and idea of a novel (where I feel more exposed because yes it is fictionalised autobiography) that I feel frozen at a standstill. I have diverted myself into a companion poetry collection to it for now, which feels so much safer! Pascale Petithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03496315815638953200noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-598558136160705007.post-82338844982705461782013-02-05T14:09:17.903-08:002013-02-05T14:09:17.903-08:00That's great. Thank you Vanessa, I shall go a...That's great. Thank you Vanessa, I shall go and have a peek. xShelleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17535270046536275621noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-598558136160705007.post-83127983687191653152013-02-05T10:30:56.709-08:002013-02-05T10:30:56.709-08:00Hard hat at the ready... armour-plated underwear a...Hard hat at the ready... armour-plated underwear and flame gun...(yes it is odd, but hey, it wouldn't be fun if it wasn't...)Vanessa Gebbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09088301040602803489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-598558136160705007.post-75880931597744985952013-02-05T10:14:04.455-08:002013-02-05T10:14:04.455-08:00Oh my, ditto on everything I find confusing and be...Oh my, ditto on everything I find confusing and bemusing about the poetry world! But your first pamphlet is a brilliant first foray into it, good luck brave explorer, it's like another country, isn't it? I do sometimes feel it is designed to keep non-poets out, but perhaps that's my fear and paranoia. That said, I am loving reading more and more poetry this year, so it's good to separate the joy of the writing from the oddness of the "biz", isn't it?Tania Hershmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15781460794034586895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-598558136160705007.post-48233655344890641202013-02-05T06:20:33.677-08:002013-02-05T06:20:33.677-08:00And I love that Grand canyon quote! And I love that Grand canyon quote! Vanessa Gebbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09088301040602803489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-598558136160705007.post-78417143632054594692013-02-05T06:19:44.453-08:002013-02-05T06:19:44.453-08:00HI Tim - it seems really irrelevant, doesn't i...HI Tim - it seems really irrelevant, doesn't it, to count how many, far more in poetry than in prose. Maybe the words poetry and commercial and viability do not sit easily in the same sentence. I have no idea why I write poetry... apart from the fact then when it comes right, it feels as though someone else wrote it - and I like that. Im certainly not in the business of literary fiction to make money! The Coward's Tale, 6 years of hard work, is selling for 1p on Amazon... I believe some of my royalties are calculated on that sales price :)Vanessa Gebbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09088301040602803489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-598558136160705007.post-23930140805078846222013-02-05T06:15:31.489-08:002013-02-05T06:15:31.489-08:00Thank you Shelley - and yes, it is very exciting ...Thank you Shelley - and yes, it is very exciting - I am so pleased. <br />I know exactly what you mean about the fear of writing poetry though, and also the feeling that you are far more 'naked' as a writer in your poetry - at least that's how it feels. But then, maybe that means it is truer as well. Look at Clare's collections 'Excisions' and 'Breastless' - absolutely heartstoppingly 'true', aren't they? You are very lucky to have Clare as a tutor. Enjoy it all. <br />(By the way, did you leave a question for the Bridport blog?? If so, the reply has gone up on the Bridport website ...!)Vanessa Gebbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09088301040602803489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-598558136160705007.post-38686108229291799322013-02-05T06:11:27.212-08:002013-02-05T06:11:27.212-08:00Hi Pascale - and thank you for such an informativ...Hi Pascale - and thank you for such an informative comment! And for your sweet words about the Troubadour poem.<br />Just to let you know, Immensi tremor oceani was written in late August, immediately after the Ty Newydd course with you and Daljit. I was shocked to hear of the death of a friend in Ireland, also a poet, and writing a poem seemed the only place to go to salve the real sadness. That's what I mean by, 'I turn to poetry when prose doesn't fit' - ie, 'feel right' or 'help' or whatever else. But obviously my subconscious was full of your recent help and advice and the new learning I'd just done - so... thank you! xVanessa Gebbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09088301040602803489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-598558136160705007.post-88933249305040131112013-02-05T05:38:19.959-08:002013-02-05T05:38:19.959-08:00Re why agents don't bother - in "Mapping ...Re why agents don't bother - in "Mapping contemporary poetry"<br />http://www.literaturedevelopment.co.uk/domains/nationalassociationforliteraturedevelopment.org.uk/local/media/audio/Poetry_mapping_DEFINITIVE.pdf<br />they list the 100 most profitable books by "contemporary" "UK" poets. Eliot, Duffy, Armitage, Cope, Hughes and Larkin dominate the top 50 (I think only Paul McCartney, Plath and Astley break the domination). After the top 50, sales are in four figures - e.g. Don Paterson's "Landing Light" (67th in the charts) sold 4258 copies (libraries, etc). <br /><br />"Publishing a book of verse is like dropping a rose petal in the Grand Canyon and waiting for the echo" (Don Marquis)Tim Lovehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00578925224900533603noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-598558136160705007.post-32823621281859003912013-02-05T04:36:52.613-08:002013-02-05T04:36:52.613-08:00Hi Vanessa,
An interesting post, thank you. Cong...Hi Vanessa,<br /><br />An interesting post, thank you. Congratulations of your publication, it must be very exciting. I have just started attempting to write poetry myself. I am studying a Creative Writing course with the OU and otherwise I may well have avoided it. I have had a bit of a fear of writing poetry. I still haven't quite got over that, writing this way makes me feel rather naked. But I am enjoying it. I was also delighted that you mentioned Clare Best. She is my tutor and I am looking forward to a day school on poetry with her on Saturday. It seems I shall be in very good hands. All the very best for your pamphlet. Shelley x Shelleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17535270046536275621noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-598558136160705007.post-60570318400250589332013-02-05T04:24:56.587-08:002013-02-05T04:24:56.587-08:00Hi Vanessa, thank you for mentioning my workshops,...Hi Vanessa, thank you for mentioning my workshops, that's very kind, and to teach you is sheer pleasure. Congrats on the pamphlet, I'm looking forward to it very much. This is a lot to answer. When I teach my Chateau Ventenac course we usually spend some time discussing these issues. I think your track record as a novelist will have an influence on your poetry publications, at the very least it tells poetry publishers you are professional, committed and have a readership.Very few poets have agents, as others have said, because there's no money in it. It's not a financial transaction in most cases, apart that is from the publisher taking the very real risk of losing money. Many collections sell under 50 copies! Even when collections sell a few thousand copies there's not much royalties, compared to novels. About online magazines not being as valuable at the moment for a CV - I imagine that's for a number of reasons. Partly, it IS happening, but not yet, so Helen Ivory's excellent mag is a fairly new thing. I'm sure this situation will change as online magazines are growing in number and quality. Then there's the aspect of publishers talent scouting: it's quicker for them to be sent free issues of paper magazines, to browse through for emerging poets they find exciting than for them to spend days trawling the web. Again, I expect this is changing. Just a few thoughts! The track record is essential to show a poet is building a readersship and has served an apprenticeship, and their poems have been scrutinised by editors whose opinion publishers might respect. To compare Poetry London with Ink, Sweat and Tears: It's much harder to get in to PL because there is less space for poems per year, therefore the editor (speaking from experience) may have spent more time agonising over poesm they are considering publishing. Competition wins are another thing altogether, and just as valuable for the CV if not more, and your poem that won the Troubadour prize is extraordinary. I don't suppose that has gone unnoticed! PxPascale Petithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03496315815638953200noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-598558136160705007.post-12669068366325318532013-02-05T03:25:23.234-08:002013-02-05T03:25:23.234-08:00Hi Francesca - valuable points, thank you. It is ...Hi Francesca - valuable points, thank you. It is your point regarding mainstream-published writers with agents (your exception) that I was exploring above. Especially, arguably, a writer who has a 'poet's novel' already out there...(according to A N Wilson). It was a surprise to find that in general, an introduction from an agent means nothing in the poetry world, whereas in prose, it does. All part of this learning curve, I guess. I was keen to state that in my post, as I have not heard any advice on this count to date. Vanessa Gebbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09088301040602803489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-598558136160705007.post-14910799791229519192013-02-05T03:16:35.455-08:002013-02-05T03:16:35.455-08:00HI Tim, and thanks for that - I get the commission...HI Tim, and thanks for that - I get the commissioning stuff - and I guess that's why you have to work hard to get your work into the magazines read by editors, to get a name out there. My bad - but as I said, its been a focus on fiction up to now. If they don't know your work, why should they be interested to publish you... and that's understandable. It does surprise me that eds aren't in general interested to see submissions via agents though - if you have a record of publishing fiction in addition to some poetry successes, I'd have thought that meant summat, but obviously not. A lot to learn here! And thanks for those really good links. Vanessa Gebbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09088301040602803489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-598558136160705007.post-92074219985459094442013-02-05T02:35:15.528-08:002013-02-05T02:35:15.528-08:00Agents don't represent poetry because there...Agents don't represent poetry because there's no money in it (as a general rule). No advances amd negligible royalties mean that the agent's 15% is often 15% of nothing. The exception would be an author who also publishes prose, where an agent might rep their poetry too as a kind of loss-leader. The other excrption, of course, would be for those rare poets who actually make money from their poetry - but they're rare indeed.Francescahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13045675906906129253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-598558136160705007.post-29564836627420379282013-02-05T02:06:52.055-08:002013-02-05T02:06:52.055-08:00"One would have thought the slush piles are f..."One would have thought the slush piles are fifty times higher than prose..." - I seem to recall Chris Hamilton-Emery writing that one of the myths of the poetry world is that the slush pile is worth it. Helena Nelson wrote that "it may be worth noting that poetry publishers, once established, have a constant mental list of people they’d like to work with and publications they’d like to do. ... Most publishers start to say ‘no unsolicited submissions’ simply as a way of making the workload manageable." <br /><br />"It is also a joy to be published in a limited edition of 300 copies" - I thought 300 was quite a big print-run nowadays. <br /><br />"either you play the game by the rules, or you don’t." - For what it's worth, you're welcome to http://litrefsarticles.blogspot.co.uk/2011/10/getting-poetry-published-in-uk.html (already a bit out-dated)<br /><br />If you want lists of "recurring Contemp Po features" (i.e. conventions), see http://www.happenstancepress.co.uk/index.php?option=com_easyblog&view=entry&id=258&Itemid=52 (Helena Nelson) and http://htmlgiant.com/craft-notes/moves-in-contemporary-poetry/ (Mike Young)Tim Lovehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00578925224900533603noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-598558136160705007.post-38672888353150902492013-02-05T01:47:53.161-08:002013-02-05T01:47:53.161-08:00Sue - I well remember an evening in front of the f...Sue - I well remember an evening in front of the fire at Anam Cara, and you read from your work, and I loved it - and expressed some disbelief that I could ever do that... and you were amazingly encouraging. Thank you! Look forward to the poet. xVanessa Gebbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09088301040602803489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-598558136160705007.post-39862215403528482422013-02-05T01:35:44.319-08:002013-02-05T01:35:44.319-08:00Huge congrats to you. I think I'll take some v...Huge congrats to you. I think I'll take some vicarious pride in this, too, remembering when we first started talking about your writing poetry. I might even write a little blog post about this post, if you don't mind. out have such fascinating things to say on the subject.Sue Guineyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13556228394020314560noreply@blogger.com